Executive Life and Leadership Coaching - Interview with Itir Keskiner, MBA, PCC
July 7, 2021
By Matt Miner, MBA, CFP®
John, Paul, and Ringo needed a little help from their friends, and most of us need lots of help wherever we can find it. And it's axiomatic that the best athletes, and increasingly the most successful entrepreneurs and executives, employ coaching as an important tool in their toolbelts. Itir Keskiner and I talk about how and why to deploy coaching as you work toward your goals and dreams.
Coaching helps as we establish goals and build personal awareness. Coaching also provides a personal accountability mechanism and outside perspective from someone who’s in your corner. From my own experience working with coaches formally on two occasions, I can attest to its effectiveness.
One of my favorite lines in this interview was Itir’s comment that “You don’t have to wait ‘til it gets worse before you make it better.” Although coaches serve in difficult situations - and that can be a great time to work with a coach - they also help clients achieve excellent outcomes when things are OK, or even when things are going great.
Itir shares her journey from corporate work to launching her practice, and ways she works with clients to develop helpful philosophies, mindsets, and habits that serve their goals.
Episode Links:
International Coaching Federation
TRANSCRIPT
Matt Miner: Sometimes. Okay. A lot of time, we just need some help. Whether you feel stuck, or if you feel like things are rocking, a coach can be a game-changer to find your footing or take your performance to the next level.
Hey, and welcome to the Work Pants Finance podcast where I serve up hard-won wisdom about work, life, and money. I teach you how to be a debt-free millionaire in your 30s, 40s, or 50s, and build a life where money works for you, not the other way around. I'm Matt Miner, your money guide. For the last decade, my family and I killed debt, built wealth, and then started teaching other people how to do the same thing. In 2018, I stepped away from corporate work to serve clients full-time as a fee-only fiduciary financial advisor. Work Pants Finance is the show for MBAs, entrepreneurs, and other high-income professionals who want a financial plan that works as hard as they do.
This is Executive Life and Leadership Coaching: Interview with Itir Keskiner. Find more at workpantsfinance.com/34.
Itir, it's my pleasure to be with you today. I wonder if you could take just a couple of minutes and share your story with my audience.
[00:01:13] Itir Keskiner: Absolutely, Matt. It's such a pleasure to be here. I'm Itir Keskiner, an executive coach with my own practice here in Durham North Carolina, Insight Meets Action. I came upon my coaching career in a very interesting way. It's an interesting story. I started my career in Washington, DC. I had just graduated from the George Washington University in international affairs, thinking that I would be a diplomat who would one day save the world and heal us of all world conflicts. But unfortunately, I got jaded from politics pretty quickly and decided to shift my focus to business which brought me to consulting.
Then eventually ended up at business school at Duke Fuqua School of Business, where I met you, Matt.
[00:01:58] Matt: A very fine school.
[00:01:59] Itir: Very fine school. Go Duke! And then found myself really fascinated with marketing and brand management. Of course, in hindsight, I'm clear that the reason why I was attracted to it still came back to people and wanting to understand people at a deeper level, understand what makes them tick, what motivates them to make certain decisions over others. I pursued brand management. My first role out of business school was at Unilever as an associate brand manager. I had the pleasure of working on the Suave and Hellman's brands while I was there.
Then my career took an interesting turn. If you hadn't gathered by now, I'm a multiple-time career switcher. I had this opportunity to move to Seoul, South Korea and to work in the global strategy group of Samsung. I switched industries to tech and I switched functions over to internal strategy, learned a lot about myself and the world by living abroad. I highly recommend it to anyone who can fit it in. And also got back in touch with what was really important to me and what my values were. My next move brought me back stateside and I found a really great values-aligned company in Burt's Bees and really enjoyed going back to brand management there.
I stayed with Bert's Bees for almost four years. Again, couldn't speak more highly of that company, but I did hit a point in my career where I felt that I was on a train headed toward a destination I didn't necessarily want to reach, so it was taking me towards being a VP of marketing, being a CMO eventually. But when I thought about my ideal lifestyle and what I wanted to be working on, I actually found that the more senior I got the less satisfied and fulfilled I was feeling. I knew that I needed to get off that train, sit on the platform for a minute and really figure out once and for all, what would be best for me. I had some really interesting conversations with other career switchers and people I admired and kept coming across this theme that they had worked with coaches.
I had not worked with a coach at that point and got really fascinated about what coaches do. Then in that research, I just became so fascinated with coaching that I decided to go ahead and get certified as a coach at the Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching. Then as soon as I made that choice, I really felt more comfortable going for it and leaving my full-time role at Bert's Bees. I started my own practice about four years ago as a coach. I really haven't looked back and really enjoy working with people who are contemplating those types of career switches themselves and who are looking to get a better understanding of who they really are and what they could be doing to honor who they really are.
[00:05:05] Matt: That's a great story. I have two follow-ups to that, that I was really curious about. One is cheeky and the other more serious. The cheeky one first. As a former West Sider, tell me how Unilever thinks about the difference between Best Foods and Hellman's and why they preserve those two names if you can, in just a sentence or two.
[00:05:27] Itir: It comes down to brand recognition and loyalty. Best Foods' consumers grew up with Best Foods, and Hellman's consumers grew up with Hellman's and they are staunchly loyal to their mayo of choice. It would be very costly for the brand to try to convince them otherwise, even though it's the same exact product. [chuckles]
[00:05:51] Matt: We came out here and heard, "Bring out the Hellman's." and "Bring out the best." I was like, "Bring out the Hellman's. What the hell?" It turns out that that was this other brand, but then we switched to McCormick's Mayonesa. That's where we're at on our mayonnaise these days. But the more serious question was to ask prior to taking the plunge into the coaching industry yourself, had you, in fact, in any capacity ever utilized a leadership executive transition coach.
[00:06:18] Itir: I'm sorry to say that I hadn't, which is pretty shocking and I think telling. I'm hoping that's something that's changing. Of course, we did have wonderful career coaches at Duke, at Fuqua's career center. I don't want to discount the impact they have.
[00:06:34] Matt: Go, Mary Beck.
[00:06:35] Itir: Go, Mary Beck. exactly. Yes, I did receive that kind of support which helped shape my career decisions. But in my corporate career, since I got to a point that was still relatively middle management level, not senior management, I didn't have the benefit of a formal coach being a match with me in the corporate environment.
I think the way coaching used to be perceived, it used to be perceived as something for executives, something for the most senior of leaders, et cetera. I just hadn't had that exposure before, but that's changing. Companies are getting on board now and understanding that they need to support their emerging leaders, and that everyone could benefit from coaching. I think people are understanding that their personal lives can also benefit from coaching.
[00:07:26] Matt: For sure. Itir, tell us a little bit about your business Insight Meets Action, who you help, and how you help people.
[00:07:33] Itir: I chose the company name Insight Meets Action because I help people understand themselves at a deeper level. I help them understand what they really want, what they're here to do on earth, what's actually important to them. Then turn those insights that they gain about themselves into actions that move them forward to a state of being that really honors who they are. More succinctly said, I help people align what they do with who they are.
[00:08:06] Matt: I think that's a great thing to do and some commonality between you and I in our businesses and how we go about doing that. Following up from that, if you could talk a little bit about how and when people leverage coaching in their lives or when you would recommend that people seek out a coach.
[00:08:23] Itir: People come to me when they feel lost, when they feel stuck, when they're anxious about their future, their next moves, when they're feeling unmotivated to change though they need a change, and they know they need a change, which is great. Those are all great points to bring on a coach. You're tired of suffering on your own and recognize that you don't have to go it alone. You can get help.
However, what I encourage people to consider is that you don't have to wait until it gets worse to make it better. You can actually seek out a coach proactively at those inflection points in your life when you want to accelerate your performance, when you want to get the outcomes you're reaching for more effectively and more efficiently, when you want clarity on choices that are all good. Sometimes we are in that situation where we actually have many different decision points that are in line with what we're seeking and it can be hard to choose
[00:09:32] Matt: It can still be overwhelming, even when everything is good. It can still feel like you're being squashed by good opportunities.
[00:09:38] Itir: Yes. 100%, Matt. 100%. I would say more broadly my hope is that people seek out coaching when they want to see the bigger picture of where they're headed, when they want to set goals that really enhance their personal growth and accelerate their progress and performance.
[00:10:00] Matt: I just would reflect on that. I have twice worked with coaches. Once with you and once with Laura Calandrella who also appeared on this podcast. I've probably not worked with either of you as much as I would like, or as much as I should, but just can say that in my own experience in working with a coach, it can be so helpful to have a conversation partner who's also in your corner and who wants the best for you. Then has some skill in helping move you toward those outcomes that you say are most important. Then also adds some version of an accountability structure to this growth process.
I reflect very favorably and positively on my own coaching experiences. I think you said it really well. It may end up being the title of the episode that you don't have to wait until it gets worse before you make it better. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that. As a follow-up, sometimes people get a little sticker shock when they think about investing in coaching for themselves. When is it worth it? Can you provide some examples of ROI from your own coaching practice that your clients have experienced with you?
[00:11:017] Itir: Great question, Matt. Yes, so it is an investment. It's an investment in yourself. I think the when, is when you're ready to make that investment in yourself and when you're ready to do the work that it takes to uncover and understand yourself better and to make change in your life. When you're ready for change really is how I would briefly succinctly state that. In terms of the ROI, I can't tell you the number of clients who have increased their salaries, have pursued job opportunities that they wouldn't have otherwise pursued that resulted in much higher personal wealth, and similarly with entrepreneurs that I work with and startup CEOs, and so forth removing the barriers that might've been getting in their way from managing their businesses more effectively to bring in that extra revenue. There are tangible monetary benefits to coaching a lot of the time.
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[00:12:24] Matt: Today's show is brought to you by the Work Pants Finance podcast. If you enjoy Work Pants Finance, please spread the word. Recommend the show to friends and family and go to iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts and leave a rating and review. Your ratings and reviews are a huge encouragement to me. They also let other people know they should check out the Work Pants Finance podcast too.
Moving from coaching itself to you as a coach. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about philosophies, mindsets, habits, practices, some real things that might be valuable to listeners that you find yourself recommending to most of your clients. I think you know this. A lot of the folks who listen to this show are like a lot of the folks that you and I went to business school with. You can imagine some of the challenges that they may face and that you've seen others like them face. I'm interested in your thoughts on that.
[00:13:21] Itir: Yes, Matt. A great question. My core belief, at the end of the day, is that when we align our values, our strengths, and our actions, we show up as our most powerful whole selves and we get more fulfillment and satisfaction of whatever it is that we're doing. I like to tell clients, please don't deprive us of you. I think it's easy to get trapped in a comparison game and lose sight of who we really are and what we really want and what's relevant to us as individuals.
When we do that, when we fail to honor our unique gifts, our values, and our strengths, I think we really deprive the world of what only we could have brought to the table. When we think of humanity and what we need each individual to be bringing to the table, I think what a shame to miss out if there are folks out there who are suppressing who they really are and holding back on their unique talents.
[00:14:26] Matt: There's a lot to be done. We need everybody.
[00:14:28] Itir: We need everybody. All hands on deck, for sure. With that being my core belief, I work with clients on identifying and articulating their values, identifying strengths. There are practical ways of doing that. There are plenty of assessments out there that are free and available online if you just Google values assessment, you Google strengths assessments. We've come across them in the corporate world, MBCI, StrengthsFinder and so forth. Those can be helpful tools, but in addition, I really encourage people to think about their childhoods, think about what excited them when they were seven years old. When they were playing with their friends, were they the ringleader who would have everybody going outside creating forts and tents, or were they the quiet, more introverted painter who liked to create on their own? Who was that child like? Then also to think about their own experiences and what those experiences have demonstrated about who they are, those turning point moments we've all had where we've faced a challenge that seemed insurmountable.
Guaranteed, we've all had them, so what did that challenge reveal about your character and who you are? When have you felt that flow state of, "This is my jam. This is me. I'm doing what lights me up." Identifying those moments, doing that work to uncover what's really there. Then running an audit, so understanding based on what I know about myself, where are there misalignments between who I am and my strengths and what I really care about and my actions and what I do?
That could translate literally to auditing your calendar and looking at what's on there and checking whether those activities really are contributing to you expressing who you are, or moving you in the direction you want to move. It could be looking at your budget, which I'm sure you would agree, Matt, is a good activity to do, and understanding whether you're putting your resources into things that align with who you are and what you want.
Then starting to ask the questions of, okay, if mismatches and misalignments exist, how did they get there? What would you need to start to say no to in order to be able to make space for you and what you really want? One of my favorite books is Essentialism by Greg McKeown.
[00:17:13] Matt: That's a great one.
[00:17:14] Itir: He's my go-to expert on this topic of just being really ruthless with what you say no to and how you protect your time. I think we lose sight of the fact that time is actually our most finite resource and we don't know when we're actually going to run out of it. How do we want to use our minutes and hours and days?
[00:17:36] Matt: I so agree with you, and this is an area that I need as much help as anybody. One of the advantages of having a podcast is you can invite people on and learn from them yourself. I wonder practically, as people think about, for example, freeing up time to do more of the things that they are best at, but they perceive that as being intention. For example, with financial goals, you can hire more help, but then you spend more money or things like that. How do you help people work through when is the right time to make those trade-offs and when is not the time to make that trade-off?
[00:18:11] Itir: I think, Matt, it comes down to first identifying the trade-offs. That's a step that a lot of people actually skip, so first identifying what the trade-offs are and then doing a gut check of which trade-offs really feel worth it because of what's on the other side. Which ones are really draining you of your energy, your capacity, and are getting in your way? Just becoming more and more clear about that so that you can make better choices.
[00:18:44] Matt: I think that's a great answer. I reflect on-- We're in the midst of remodeling our house right now. We're doing some of it ourselves and we're having a lot of help with other parts of it. There are times when we can do it, and either it's something that I particularly enjoy, or maybe it's something where I can work with my children and I'm maybe doing some teaching as we're doing the work and those times feel really good. Then there are other times where I feel like it's taking me away from something, maybe, that's more important. Those would probably be good times to look and see where and how I can get help on those tasks so that I can do these other things and not do that thing. Anyway, I appreciate you sharing the process that you recommend.
[00:19:26] Itir: Yes. Thank you, Matt.
[00:19:28] Matt: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about your transition from corporate work to coaching practice. I think that there are a lot of people out there who potentially might like to, at some point, launch their own thing, whatever that thing would be. What has been your favorite part about becoming fully responsible for your own revenue as an entrepreneur and what's been scariest? How do you think about that decision and anything else you want to say on this topic?
[00:19:56] Itir: Yes, Matt. Great question. I would say my favorite part has really been the autonomy to really choose what I'm spending my time on, on an even grander scale than I used to be able to. I can really wholeheartedly say that there's nothing that I'm doing that isn't serving me. I'm really able to very intentionally choose what I'm spending my time on. That's one of my favorite things. Also just the joy of coaching, the joy of realizing I've found my calling and I have the privilege of doing it every day. Those are just two extremely gratifying parts of it for me.
Inevitably there are scary moments too. There's a lot of uncertainty, that's for sure. I think some of the things that have helped me manage that is really understanding-- When I was pulling the rip cord and actually leaving my corporate job, one of the things that helped me the most was the financial analysis that I had done to understand what my runway was in terms of time. To get really clear on the lifestyle choices I was willing to trade off on and how to reduce my expenses.
Then looking at those expenses and the savings I had. Literally, how much time did I have to make this work? That gave me a ton of security to know that, to have a very clear grasp of that. As I was moving forward and starting my practice and pursuing new clients, I had that timeline in the back of my mind that was keeping me in check, like, "Is this feeling realistic?" or was I way off [laughs] and do I need to reconsider? That's a exercise I would highly recommend for anyone considering entrepreneurship or solo-preneurship. Yes. That's, what's coming to mind right now.
[00:21:53] Matt: I really like all that. In the industry that I'm in and similar to yours, we don't have really highly capital-intensive businesses. We have some ongoing expenses, some minimal IT resources, and things like that, but the big issue is the runway to let the revenue show up. For most people, that either looks like a pile of savings or a working spouse or partner, or the ability to live really cheap, and side hustle your way through it.
Which, of course, if you're listening to this and you already have a spouse and three children, that door is probably already closed. Most entrepreneurs that I have the chance to speak to, or solo-preneurs who've done this would say like, “Man, the first year was terrible. The second year, things were working a little better, but it was still not replacing what I'd lost. By the third year, maybe began to see how this could get back to what I'd stepped away from in order to do this."
Then that it's really in the third, fourth, and fifth years that people in businesses like yours or like mine begin to see the effect of the compounding of their work up to that point. You only get to get to years four and five if you survive years one through three. Well, Itir, as you look back on your entrepreneurial journey, what would you double down on and what would you avoid?
[00:23:21] Itir: I would double down on learning about myself and really understanding what my way of bringing my vision to life looks like. I would avoid benchmarking myself against external definitions of where I should be and what success should look like. Easier said in hindsight.
[00:23:43] Matt: Can you expand on that just a little bit?
[00:23:45] Itir: Yes. I think, and I say this not just of my entrepreneurial journey but my entire journey really from childhood, is that I spent much of my life just following the checklist or the benchmarks that were set by my parents, teachers, society at large. When I was in the MBA program, I was very focused on measuring myself against certain metrics of how many interviews did I do? How many offers did I get for a corporate job? I don't think I was asking the right questions.
I thought just checking those boxes that surely everyone agrees are the things to do would bring me fulfillment and satisfaction. I did not take the time to understand what success really meant for me and what the vision of my ideal life and lifestyle really looked like. I was climbing a tree but was it the tree I wanted to climb? [laughs]
[00:24:46] Matt: It's important sometimes to check that.
[00:24:48] Itir: Yes, important to check.
[00:24:49] Matt: I'm glad that you were able to make that switch relatively early in your career and have a lot of years left to do what you want with this new thing.
[00:24:58] Itir: Yes.
[00:24:59] Matt: Itir, the theme of this show is learning from the experience of others. I wonder if you're willing to share a piece of advice that you've benefited from in your life or just a piece of advice that you have come up with on your own.
[00:25:11] Itir: Yes, Matt. There is one that always comes up for me. I am an avid meditator and one of my meditation instructors early on said to me, “The present moment is always available.” I don't know who to attribute that quote to actually. I think it's part of Buddhist philosophy to a certain extent. That idea of the present moment is always available just always brings me comfort and helps me reset when I find that I'm getting really anxious about the future, rolling into all kinds of fears about uncertainty, or ruminating about the past potentially.
When I'm able to bring myself to the present moment, I feel more grounded and I feel like I'm able to tackle whatever it is I'm dealing with from a much more productive place. At the end of the day, we're only able to impact the now, what's happening in the present moment, so I just find it to be very comforting, but also logical [laughs] and useful because at the end of the day, we can only take action now in the present moment.
[00:26:26] Matt: Yes, we can only be or do right now. Comforting, logical, and useful, as a good description of that. Itir, do you have anything else that you would like to share? Any questions I haven't asked or comments you'd like to make? I really appreciate you coming on talking about coaching as a practice and sharing your experience and wisdom with us.
[00:26:49] Itir: Matt, I think we covered a lot of ground. Nothing else is coming to mind right now.
[00:26:54] Matt: Terrific. Itir, how would you like people to follow up if they want to learn more about coaching or learn more about you?
[00:27:01] Itir: Yes. If they would like to learn more about coaching, I highly recommend visiting the International Coaching Federation website, which has an amazing directory of coaches. If you're seeking a coach, that's a great place to start. If you would like to connect with me, which I would love to hear from you, I would encourage you to connect with me on LinkedIn. You can feel free to message me through LinkedIn and visit itirkeskiner.com, and use the contact form on the website to reach out.
[00:27:34] Matt: Wonderful. I will link to all of those in the blog post from today's episode and in the show notes. I really appreciate, again, the time that you've shared with the Work Pants Finance listeners today, and it's always great to be with you, Itir.
[00:7:46] Itir: Thank you, Matt. It's been a pleasure.
[00:27:48] Matt: [music] Thanks for joining Itir and me today. I'll talk to you again soon. Until then, this is Matt Miner, encouraging you to make a financial plan that works as hard as you do.
[00:28:01] Matt’s Daughter: Matt Miner is a fee-only fiduciary financial advisor employed by PLC wealth management LLC, a North Carolina registered investment advisor, where Matt provides personalized unconflicted advice to clients for a fee. He's also my dad, so please be nice when you talk to him. Matt is a certified financial planner professional and holds a series 65 securities license. He earned his bachelor's degree in finance from Arizona State University and his MBA from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. Work Pants Finance is Matt’s financial media business, where he talks about work, entrepreneurship, taxes, investing, and personal finance topics.
Matt Miner is a fee-only fiduciary financial advisor and founder and CEO of Miner Wealth Management, a North Carolina, registered investment advisor where Matt provides personalized unconflicted advice to clients for a fee. He's also my dad, so please be nice when you talk to him. Matt is a certified financial planner professional and holds a series 65 securities license. He earned his bachelor's degree in finance from Arizona State University and his MBA from Duke University's Fuqua School of Business. Work Pants Finance is Matt’s financial media business where he talks about work, entrepreneurship, kids and money, taxes, investing, and other personal finance topics.
Workpantsfinance.com exists to share wisdom and provide general financial information. It is not financial tax or legal advice. You are an individual and probably need personal advice for your specific situation. You should consider building relationships with helpful caring and competent professionals who understand your unique context and can provide advice that is tailored to your needs.
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