Identify a Niche with a Need and Create Financial Freedom: Interview with Philip “PT Money” Taylor of FinCon and PTMoney.com
June 2, 2021
By Matt Miner, MBA, CFP®
Conferences are like anything else – you need a compelling “why” to justify the investment of conference fees, travel expenses, and most importantly, time for the event. In personal finance internet-land, THE conference is FinCon and the compelling Why is massive learning in a short period of time, the chance to build relationships with other folks with similar goals, and terrific social events thrown into the mix.
Money Guide Quick Tip
Consider how you can serve your industry with an event, article, mentoring, or public speaking engagement. As long as you lead by helping others, your efforts will be admired and appreciated! And don’t let starting small discourage you. Serve where you’re at, let people know you’re there to help, and over time the right people will find you.
My guest is Philip “PT” Taylor, an early personal finance blogger and podcaster (don’t miss Ep 50…smile).
PT is best known for founding FinCon – the big annual event where money and media meet. Today PT and I share a wide-ranging discussion about personal finance, transitioning from traditional corporate work via a successful side hustle, and details about serving an industry with an event.
PT’s Life, Money, and Business Wisdom
Multiple Income Streams
Having more than one way to earn money is important! For PT, this included his work as a CPA, a blogger, and conference organizer. When Google moved his cheese in 2011 he pivoted his focus to FinCon where he had greater control, and found a place to make a huge contribution. PT Money is a solid personal finance blog. FinCon is an amazing contribution to the world.
Mastery through Teaching and Service
PT shows the importance of teaching as you learn. You only have to be one or two small steps ahead of someone else in order to help them. PT blogged about money as he learned about money in his own life.
Identify a Niche with a Need
FinCon arose at least in part because financial bloggers felt personally isolated as they honed their craft. PT and the FinCon team created a space where they could get together in person – and become more successful as through the content available at FinCon.
Time-Blocking
One of my big takeaways from this conversation and elsewhere is the power of time blocking. PT talks about his time-blocking strategy with different days for different projects.
Enjoy the Present and Plan for the Future
I love PT’s comments about the importance of reflecting on where you are and enjoying that right now, rather than only thinking about what the future is, or what we lack.
Post 2020, physical connection is more important than ever
Let your customers craft the event – have a vision, then poll the community
Avoid making the thing you create – whether a conference or piece of content – about you, the creator. Instead, make it about your ideal customer. For example, even though you hear a lot of my voice, this podcast is for you: MBA’s, entrepreneurs, and other high-income professionals who work hard and spend a ton of time in your jobs and businesses. Every one of you has massive productive capacity for earning income and building wealth. Work Pants Finance shows up each week to teach you how to be a debt-free millionaire in your thirties, forties or fifties and to provide encouragement and inspiration along the way.
Don’t compare your middle with my end, or your beginning with my middle
PT’s Book Recommendations
Huge Thanks to Elle, Lacey, and Steve!
Find Elle Martinez at Simplify and Enjoy and Couple Money
Lacey Langford is at The Military Money Expert
Steve Stewart makes this show and many others sound amazing. Check out Steve’s work here.
Learn more about the place where Money and Media Meet on the Money and Media Podcast, available wherever you listen to podcasts.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Matt: Conferences, like anything else, need a compelling “why” to justify the investment of conference fees, travel expenses, and most importantly time at the event. In personal finance internet land, the conference is FinCon. The compelling “why” is massive learning in a short period of time, the chance to build relationships with other folks with similar goals, and terrific social events thrown into the mix.
Hey, and welcome to the Work Pants Finance Podcast. I'm Matt Miner, your money guide. Work Pants Finance is the show for MBAs, entrepreneurs, and other professionals who want their financial plan to work as hard as they do.
Now, here's your money guide quick tip. Consider how you can serve your industry with an event, article, mentoring, website launch, or public speaking engagement. As long as you lead by helping others, your efforts will be admired and appreciated. Don't let starting small discourage you. Serve where you're at, let people know you're there to help, and over time, the right folks will find you.
My guest today is Philip PT Taylor. An early personal finance blogger and podcaster. PT is best known for founding FinCon, the big annual event where money and media meet. We have a wide-ranging discussion about personal finance, transitioning from corporate work via a successful side hustle, and details about serving an industry with an event. Read more at workpantsfinance.com/26.
[music]
[00:01:32] Matt: Hey, PT. It's so good to welcome you today.
[00:01:35] PT: Matt, it's great to be here. Looking forward to the chat.
[00:01:37] Matt: You and I have known each other for a bit. I have really admired what you have done with FinCon as you have built on what you started at PT Money. So that my listeners know who you are, I wonder if you'd be willing to give us the three-minute version of your story as we kick things off.
[00:01:53] PT: Yes, absolutely. Married to an awesome wife here in Texas. We have three kids. Live in the burbs, north of Dallas. I started out traditional CPA, accounting background. Followed my dad's footsteps. After a few years of that, discovered that that really wasn't for me, but didn't necessarily have an outlet. I spent a little too much time in the corporate finance world than I probably wanted to. Ultimately, got addicted to personal finance, and online marketing, and blogs, and things like that, and started my own on the side. I spent three years with that as a side hustle. The site was ptmoney.com. I still own that and run that site today 13 years later.
That was one part, to me, sharing my journey with fixing my financial life. Whether that's getting out of debt, or saving, or learning to invest. Even as someone who's a financial professional, I struggled with my personal finances. That blog was a way for me to fix that part of my life and hack my way into becoming better with my money. Ultimately, that became my full-time gig. The blog started getting enough traffic and earning enough revenue for me to solely live on that. I left the corporate finance world and became a full-time blogger. A year after that, I started FinCon. I decided I needed another side hustle.
FinCon is a conference for personal finance bloggers, podcasters, and YouTubers to come together annually and to talk shop and share ideas. I've been running both businesses now for over 10 years. They've been a real blessing in my life. They've had some ups and downs. As an entrepreneur, that's how it goes, I've discovered. Having two irons in the fire has certainly helped. I've been doing that for a while now. I'm completely debt-free at this point and run a few couple businesses here. Just enjoying the fruits of the labor that I put into it early on, and certainly God's blessing on our life. It's a rewarding time.
[00:03:52] Matt: There's so much in what you just shared, and I may just jump to a little bit of it. First of all, wise man, with a shout-out to your wife at the start, I think that's always a great way to go. I also love your personal finance addiction. I think it's cheaper and healthier than most other addictions that you might have chosen, so I salute your choice. I like what you said about having two irons in the fire because that diversity of income and honestly, even though it's two businesses, there's actually a lot more going on under the hood of those two than just any two things.
One of the things that I've observed by having come into this from the personal finance blogosphere and having read your work starting several years ago, in terms of your own passion and energy toward FinCon in recent years, I wonder how you've thought about that and how you think about your time between FinCon and PT Money. I've observed a little bit of reshaping the site in support of what FinCon is, or maybe it's more your own personal money development has you thinking about different things as you write. I'm curious if you're willing to reflect on any of that?
[00:04:57] PT: Yes, it's a combination of everything. Certainly, PT Money when I initially set it out was really just my personal blog. The things that were of interest to me were things like getting out of debt, being frugal, and learning to get started in investing, retirement accounts, and the things that were just in my world. I think as a blogger early on, it is important to focus on what you're passionate about and what is of deep interest to you because that's how you're going to be able to create the most amazing content. If it's truly something that's in your wheelhouse and you're personally experiencing, then you can just teach what you know, what you're going through. I think my blog in some ways has just followed that trajectory of my life.
I would say around year three of FinCon-- I'll just give a little more backstory. I certainly started FinCon as a side hustle, and it made probably-- I didn't lose money. Maybe made $10,000, $20,000 that first year. It certainly wasn't a big part of my overall portfolio. I was glad to have it, but I saw it as a true side hustle. Those first three years of FinCon, it was just struggling along and making a little money. Certainly, just something I was passionate about doing. I wasn't putting my entire entrepreneur hat on and going at it like trying to become an event planner or event manager. It was good to have it.
PT was going through some of the years there where it was some of the best years of that site's existence. FinCon didn't need to necessarily be a big part of my life. It was the conference we threw every year, and I was fine with that passive role. Then something happened in the fourth year where PT Money took a dive. A lot of my site's success depended upon Google traffic, and so that went down that year. I said, "Oh, no. Something's got to change. Oh, I've got this other asset, FinCon. Why don't I try to turn that into a true conference and trade show that could become bigger than just the annual meeting that it is."
There was an intentional choice that year. It was New Orleans that year, and we opened up an exhibit hall, we opened up a premium ticket option. We did some things to add a lot of value to the event, but also increase the revenue and overall profitability of the show. That was the year I intentionally tried to make that more of a true standalone business. To be honest with you, from that moment forward, PT Money became like, "Just survive. Keep the site relatively updated with good content, and just keep it going, keep it steady." I made the conscious choice now that I have scaled FinCon up to a point to where I have employees.
It's a lot more passive for me than it has been in the past to go back to PT Money and revisit it and think about what I truly wanted it to be because when I first started PT Money, it was called Primetime Money. A lot of people maybe don't know that, but that was the site's name initially. Then everyone just started calling it PT Money because that was the URL, and everyone knew me as PT Money or PT. It just became essentially my site, right? PT, it's PT's site, which was cool. It helped my personal brand. PT and FinCon just played off each other just enough and kept that site's authority I think at a good level. I'm getting down in the weeds here. I'll stop now. I'm getting to the conclusion, I promise.
This past year and a half, I said, "How can we do something fresh and exciting with PT Money that I can build a team around and exist maybe without me necessarily one day." Heavily depending on me and my personal profile, which I think helps a site, especially since I have CPA and since I have so much experience in our industry. I really wanted that site to-- As I continue to see FinCon continue to grow and grow and become a fun business to run, it's evident that I'm never going to have this moment of FinCon's going to go away, and I can just solely focus on PT Money again. It's all about me and my thing.
It's just evident to me that that kind of day has passed. I don't know. Maybe I'll revisit it one day, and bring it back to just me, but right now, I was like, "Let's give it a shot, and make it a premier standalone authority site that doesn't completely rely on me." Thus, the name change to Part-Time money. I changed it to Part-Time Money. I kept the URL at PT Money. We changed to Part-Time Money so that we refocus it on more of a niche set of ideas. The content can then be less about me and my story, and more about ideas that are in this niche, which is side hustling, entrepreneurship, real estate investing. Less of the debt reduction, less of the frugality, less of the general money management and budgeting, and more focused on the income side of the equation, as well as what do you do with that income, or how do you create additional passive income sources, and then how do you invest that?
In some ways, it reflects where I'm at. I'm running multiple businesses. I am interested in real estate now. I have a property. I invest through crowdfunding sites. In a way, it has reflected my own life, but it was convenient in that I could also pull back my own personal profile from it and it just become Part-Time Money. Yes, Part-Time Money now is a site that's dedicated, like I said, to the best ideas around side hustling and helping people start a business and even part-time jobs. That's the focus there.
How I spend my time between two businesses, I try my best to split it up in days. I do best when Monday is PT Money day, Tuesday and Wednesday are FinCon days, Thursday's a wild card day and then I leave Friday more optional to do more with family or whatever. That's been successful for me to bucket my time on the businesses because through the years it's been challenging to run multiple businesses. I would say that I would not necessarily advise doing that at least initially for anyone. It's hard to build two things at the same time, but if you're at a point to where you can scale something and you have hired people, you have systems and processes in place, if you've scaled yourself out of it, then yes, you can add on other things.
There's no blanket, "Only work on one thing all the time." Do you think Warren Buffet just works on one thing? No, he doesn't. He has multiple businesses and multiple operations going on, but he's able to do that because he's scaled himself to a level to where he only has to make so many executive decisions each day and each year. That's a long explanation as to how the operation is running these days. Sometimes it's a mess, it's not perfect, but I have good people that are working with me, people that I trust and some decent processes, I guess, in place and a long enough history with both businesses where we sort of understand the risks and what it takes to keep things moving forward.
[00:12:09] Matt: There are like 27 zillion lessons in what you just said, and I won't be able to interact with all of it, but a couple that really jumped out at me so strongly. I'm sure imperfectly, but you followed your own advice of not doing two things at once and that when you launched FinCon, PT Money really was your thing at that time. Like you described it, FinCon really was the side hustle. Interestingly, you built yourself as the FinCon organizer into the money and media guy in the personal finance internet space. Maybe that sounds esoteric depending on who may listen to this show eventually but last I knew, FinCon is rapidly closing in on 3,000 attendees. Is it above that level now?
[00:12:55] PT: Well, that's what we expect?
[00:12:56] Matt: For sure. To be the number one guy in an industry whose trade show generates traffic of 3,000 people is not that esoteric. It's actually a pretty niche to occupy professionally. Then like you shared, because of the resources that, that makes available to you and because of the business as processes and skills that you've had to learn to get to that point, you're able then to continue to support the site in a more hands-off way. I also think that there is, and I like what you're saying about moving it away from your personal brand. On the other hand, if you're going to have a money and media trade show that's growing and doing what FinCon is doing, then going ahead and being an industry practitioner at some credible level, both helps you from a learning standpoint and adds to the total credibility of the effort.
[00:13:52] PT: Yes. And I would say to your last point there, the site definitely does work more in line with FinCon. PT Money and FinCon, I think play well a little more together these days because of that, because I'm more talking about entrepreneurship and side hustling and that there's everyone at FinCon is really a big entrepreneur or side hustler of some sort. The businesses can play a little more well together, I think, going forward. I've noticed that in my marketing, with what posts we can write about at PT money, it's like, "Oh yes, we could write about this FinCon thing because it's more now in line with our new mission. I think anytime you have multiple things it is important to stop down occasionally and try to focus on, "Okay, well, how could these help each other," just in a subtle way. You don't want to necessarily take value away from one to promote the other, but is there a natural cross-promotion that should happen?
Some people, I don't want to say they knocked me, but they maybe accused me of not utilizing both businesses to help each other out a little more than they should. For some, at least in the early years, that was part of me not wanting to take advantage of the community for personal gain. FinCon is something that I have always felt was a result of a community that already existed. When I started it, it was to serve people who were already there and already in some ways, meeting together, online and gathering together at small meetups and things like that. I don't want to ever confuse folks to pretend like I got to 3000 people out of nothing. There were 300 people when it started and that was a legit community before I started the event.
I think I've always been hesitant to use that community for personal gain other than I'm the guy who puts on the event. The event itself will be personally rewarding to me because it is a lot of work and we have a great team that we can now pay full-time salaries to help produce it. I will be putting my event planner hat on and be an entrepreneur in that regard but PT money, I don't know, I always felt weird about trying to promote that through that conference.
[00:16:03] Matt: I think I hear you and then I think I would just push back on that a little bit. I think all of us struggle with this at different times because I don't think you're abusing the personal finance community, I think that you are serving the personal finance community and there's no reason that that should not be personally rewarding.
[00:16:20] PT: Well, thanks for saying that.
[00:16:21] Matt: You've reflected your money journey and I wonder what you'd like to share with my audience about what you love about where you are today in life, work, and money.
[00:16:32] PT: Great question because I think we oftentimes, as someone who likes to push and move forward constantly, you oftentimes think about what you're not. It is important to stop and think about what you are and what I am loving right now is certainly creating my own schedule, waking up every day and just completely being independent for the most part on how I get to choose to spend my time. That is my highest value. Personally, I've discovered about myself as being independent. I felt it whenever I left my parents' house to go off to college, I felt that rush that feeling of this is my highest level of achievement. It's like leaving the nest. I did it also when I left the corporate world. That same feeling struck me and so that's the best thing.
That comes with a lot of responsibility, obviously, and it's hard to make your own schedule. I don't want to pretend like that's easy but is the absolute best thing because then it means it opens up so many more doors. What more is possible? If your schedule is completely open, you can do what you want. Then in some ways, you can do anything. Again, that's still scary in some way, but it's also completely freeing and I love that. I love my family, obviously that I've been blessed with, our neighborhood here that we get to walk to school too, and my community.
I love the customers that I do have through the website and certainly through FinCon. To me, I have the best customers in the world. They are good people who are doing great work and to get to serve them regularly through our event and all of our online opportunities and things it's just really cool. A lot of business owners I know probably may not be as connected to their customer base as I am because in some ways I'm one of our customers too. To get to serve them on a regular basis is pretty awesome. Those are some of the, maybe that was more than one thing, but that's what I'm loving these days.
[00:18:38] Matt: That's right. Well, when you invite somebody on the show, they get to say what they want so that's terrific. Like you, I really value control of my time and that's been probably my favorite thing about the transition that I've made over the last two years. I'm right there with you on that one. As you look at it, is there anything that you would like to change today with your life, work, or money? And what steps are you taking to make it happen?
[00:19:01] PT: Oh man, that's a tough one there. I've got some changes to make personally with my health. That's a constant struggle for me and so I am currently changing that. I feel like I'm moving in a positive, progressive direction with that but there's a lot of work to do there. I'm slowly realizing that the older I get, that's just part of the package. We were talking before the show about you running regularly, which I think is a great discipline, a great practice and so it's just got to be built in as part of my daily routine. With my schedule, I can do that and so certainly doing that and improving my health and going forward, I've got some ways to go there.
What else would I change? I would probably like in the future to have a little clearer vision on where I want to take FinCon. In the past year, I've struggled to find a vision for it because the business has exceeded my expectations and has exceeded my previous visions for it in some ways. I've struggled with, "What's next? Where do we move it forward?" because bigger doesn't necessarily better for every business or more isn't necessarily better. I've struggled with that vision. I think having a clear vision for where I want to take it or where it needs to go would be something that I would pray for. A little more clarity as to where I should move things. I'm sort of winging it, I'm sort of doing what I think it needs to do and where it needs to go and I'm asking the community, which I think is important as a business owner. Ask your customers where it needs to go, what else they need?
We're doing some of those things but I feel like there's something bigger. Like I said, this is a special community of people and there's got to be something really big for us to do together and just haven't had that thing bite me yet and I look forward to those moments. Sometimes I feel like, and as a business owner, those listening may relate to this, sometimes you just need that empty space that whitespace to allow yourself to have that new vision. Sometimes I wonder, "Are the multiple businesses, the things that I have going on in my life right now, whether it's personal or business, are they getting in the way of me having a bigger vision for the business?"
That's where I struggle. It's like, "Okay, do I need to make space before I can allow something new and fresh to come in?" because I love when something new fresh does come in because it takes a hold of me and it drives me forward. I feel like I just need that. I'm stuck in that place of not necessarily having space to create, but wanting it so that I can cast a new vision. Just kind of cruise mode.
[00:21:44] Matt: I have a lot of admiration for what you've done in this area. To hear that the need to continue to challenge yourself and to grow is out there, I think is a great lesson for all of us. It's always going to be there.
Another thing that I really like and what I hear you saying is you've solved some of your lower-order problems. You've got what I would call uptown problems and you were doing a good job, at least based on what you just said there, in doing things that only you can do. Only you can be with your family, only you can work on your health, only you can have the vision for the business that you're building. That's a pretty good use of time to be doing the things that only you can do.
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[00:22:30] Matt: Today's show is brought to you by FinCon 2021 and the Money and Media Podcast. It's 2021 fam and everybody needs a platform of some kind that features your voice and your views separate and apart from your employers. If you listen to Work Pants Finance, and that has you hankering to share your take on money via the internet or other media, whether that's on YouTube, a blog, podcast, or your social channels, check out the Money and Media Podcast and meet me at FinCon 2021 in Austin, Texas this September.
At this point, I thought it would be fun to feature the voices of a few longtime FinCon attendees. Specifically, Elle Martinez of Couple Money and Lacey Langford, The Military Money Expert. Learn more about Elle at couplemoney.com. and catch up with Lacey at laceylangford.com.
[00:23:25] Elle: Hi, this is Elle from Couple Money and the Simplify & Enjoy Podcast. For me, FinCon is top of my list for conferences to go to. A big part of that is the community behind it. I remember going to the first FinCon outside of Chicago. My husband and I just had our first baby. She was six, maybe seven weeks old when we drove up to Chicago, and I was incredibly nervous for many different reasons. One of the things that immediately put me at ease was the camaraderie that was a part of FinCon even at the beginning. We were all trying to grow our business and help our audience with understanding and making personal finance their own, but we were also supporting each other. I got that sense almost immediately when I stepped into the hotel.
Trying to balance building a business while being a new mom can be difficult, but I was able to attend the sessions that I needed to, with baby in tow and no one said anything. In fact, they were very encouraging. They shared their own stories as parents.
Don't get me wrong. There's an incredible amount of value on the business side. You learn how to handle topics like SEO, doing audits with your content. I learned about podcasting the ins and outs. Steve Stewart is amazing. I've been so grateful for his help and you also have social media.
There are so many different experts within the community, which is fantastic, but to me, what makes it the best is that we are there to share our expertise with others. The people I talked to and hang with year after year, we are focused on serving each of our different communities and empowering them but we also want to help each other out as well. That spirit of generosity and that spirit of mentorship really comes from the top. PT has done a fantastic job with that, and so has Jessica, and Justin, everybody on the FinCon team has been wonderful. Even though the conference has gotten larger and larger, I still feel like I'm with friends every year. I'm looking forward to catching up with everyone and seeing them this year in Austin.
[00:25:50] Lacey: Hey everyone, I'm Lacey Langford, the creator, and host of The Military Money Show. FinCon is a special place for me. Small decisions we make can have a major impact on our lives. My decision to attend my first FinCon had a significant impact on my life and business. I'm not going to lie, like doing anything new, I was nervous to show up.
I knew no one, and once I arrived, it became very clear that I had a lot to learn about making a living at Money and Media. I knew right away, though, that I made a good decision to attend. One of my first thoughts was, "FinCon is the place I need to be," so I was happy that I made the right choice.
Shortly after that, I realized FinCon wasn't the place that I needed to be. It was the place that I wanted to be. Everyone shared advice and tips, they pointed me in the right direction, they introduced me to new people that could help me solve problems, which I had many of, and improve. Every session I attended gave me a value that I could use to grow my business and to make money. Not to mention, it was a lot of fun. FinCon is where I decided to start my podcast. It's where I've met some of my most treasured friends and established valuable business relationships.
Small decisions you make can have an amazing impact on your life, but a small decision you make can also have a major effect on somebody else's life. Philip Taylor's decision to start a conference for money nerds, not only had a phenomenal impact on my life and career, but it also did the same for thousands of other money nerds and I think that that is pretty cool.
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[00:27:25] Steve: Hey, Work Pants Finance listeners. This is Steve Stewart, Matt Miner's editor with his permission sliding in with my own little testimony about FinCon and PT Money. I went to my first FinCon in 2012 and I've been to every one ever since. Even though I no longer blog about personal finance, I no longer podcast about personal finance, I would attend it even if I wasn't editing for my peers who are the FinCon people. It's all because of community and I don't want to repeat what Elle Martinez said, who gave me way too much credit. I don't want to repeat what Lacey Langford said, who's one of the nicest people in the world that you could ever meet.
The community is different because it trickles down from the founder. PT money was the guy who organized the event but never, I don't want to say never led the event because you have to have a leader, but he was never in the forefront. He was always supporting from behind. He was always lifting up and that trickled down through the culture of what we now know is FinCon. There's a lot of conferences now that follow a similar model. I'm going to assume that PT just kept hitting the right things because I used to attend conferences and they're always the type of conference that most people think about. They're sent there by their employer, they have to go, they're told to go, the employer sets everything up. That's not the type of conference that I enjoy going to anymore.
I like going to FinCon and FinCon is full of people, hundreds of hundreds of people who vote for themselves to go, they volunteer to go, they take their own time their own money and tell themselves to go and take away their time to go and attend the conference. The sessions are great, but the sessions aren't what makes FinCon FinCon. The after-parties are great, but they're not what makes FinCon FinCon. The culture of people helping each other. I'll tell you why. When you talk to someone from FinCon, they'll always say, "The real benefit of FinCon is in the hallways." It's the late-night discussions in the lobby, 2:00 in the morning. You've been up since 6:00 in the morning to get up, to get your coffee, get ready for the first keynote session, whatever, but then you're up at 2:000 in the morning in the lobby talking to other people like you to learn how they do things.
There's something magical about that culture that helpful culture of other people who voted with their own time and money to go to a conference for three or four days out of state away from their family that really means something. It translates into a lot of success stories. That's where mine came from. I don't write about personal finance anymore, I don't podcast about personal finance anymore, but I am going to every single FinCon going forward. The reason is because of the culture that belongs there, the culture that has come from FinCon, which has trickled down from the desire by PT to create this culture of people helping other people.
Sure, he's benefited from it, and he should. He created the thing and a lot of other people have benefited from it as well. I want to support that type of a culture. I want to help other people get better as well. You're going to find me at every FinCon going forward. I'm not going to miss a single one. I hope to meet you at one too. If you see me there, come shake my hand. I would gladly take it and introduce you to some other people. Maybe we'll be talking in the lobby at 2:00 in the morning. All right, I'm going to send you back now to the interview between Matt Miner and PT Money, Philip Taylor.
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[00:31:03] Matt Miner: This is a show about learning from experiences of other people. I feel like the thing that you've done with FinCon is something that, not necessarily in this money and media space but in other places, can be replicated. I have a former industry friend named Casey Seymour who's got a blog and a podcast about used equipment valuations and serves that industry with a conference. I feel like if somebody can think of the niche and serve it well, there's an opportunity to do something like you've done. I wonder what you'd like to say about starting an industry conference, how you did that, and what someone else should think about if they have an interest there.
[00:31:43] PT: Absolutely. For a really deep dive and how we started FinCon, I wrote a post on it over at ptmoney.com. I'll link to that, how to start. Then I just did a follow-up to it last year, which was how we grew FinCon from essentially $100,000 revenue to $500,000 revenue over so many years without really paid marketing or funding. We're still a bootstrap business and do it all ourselves. How to start it and how to grow it. Those posts are out there. In terms of getting something going fun community to serve in the event, I'm bullish on the industry in general.
I would say that it's like, if you want to get into an industry that has a lot of potential, I think events are a great industry to jump into. They have a high barrier of entry of people. Not a true barrier, just a mental barrier. They think it's harder than it really is. The industry is self-supported in a way, hotels are ready to help you put an event on. The industry is ready to help you create this thing. There's a true ecosystem out there to rely on. The tracks have been laid down and there's this false wall that you just need to bust through and go do it. Don't be scared of it, I guess, is my first piece of advice.
Secondly, I would say that it helps and I always try to encourage folks to serve a community that does exist. Don't try to create something out of nowhere. Create an event for a community that already wants to be together. That'll be the easiest event to market ever. Because if you know they want to be together, you can just rent the gym and bring the brown bag of lunch and they'll have a great time because they want to be together with each other. That's what you're selling, the opportunity to be together with people they already like. It doesn't really matter what you put on stage or how cool the giveaways are or how great the meals are, because they got a chance to be with the people they want to be with.
That's why I'm big on this industry is because we have the internet now to connect us to a lot of people in this world who share our values and who we want to do business with, or who we want to just connect with for whatever reason. Geographically, we're not limited in our relationships anymore, but physically, we still are limited in that it's not true handshakes, having a coffee together, having a drink together kind of time, which is valuable and is different than what you and I are having now on Skype. This is great, but it's still different when we can hug it out.
[00:34:24] Matt: I'll see you in September for the hug.
[00:34:25] PT: Or go on a run together or whatever it is. As connection becomes easier, physical connection becomes a premium.
[00:34:32] Matt: More important.
[00:34:34] PT: That's a long way of saying that.
Then I would say, just rely on your customers as much as possible. Allow them to help you craft the thing. Don't think that you need to have all the answers and that you have to plan every last detail of this event by yourself. Now, granted, it helps to have a vision for your event to know in your own mind, "I went to that other event in that different industry or real semi-related and I liked that thing they did. I'm going to take that and bring it into my industry conference," or, "I want to have this cool thing at my event." Those ideas, yes, bring those in because you want to be proud of what you're putting together and you want to be excited about it too. Don't try to plan it all yourself, ask the community, poll them.
This is what we did for the first year. We emailed everybody every week and ask them on, "What do you want for this? What kind of topics do you want?" or, "What kind of meals would we like to have?" or, "What does the t-shirt look like?" We just went down the line on all these things and allowed them to participate in. This has the double effect of not only getting the answers for yourself, the easy way to get the answers, but it also creates a very engaged customer so when they get to the event, they have extreme ownership in the event itself. They feel like they helped craft this thing. Again, it just tears down those barriers of, "Oh, it's got to be some amazing thing that I've got to put together. They've got to be wowed when they get there." Just destroy all that by letting them help you produce it. It's going to be what they helped you make so all the pressure's off.
One last thing, if you can avoid making it about you, the best public speaker out there, the most egotistical person out there. I know you might have those tendencies to try to put yourself on stage and make this about you. Man, just really as much as possible, resist that. Just from an energy standpoint, it's hard to produce an event when you're also the talent. Secondly, it's hard to rinse and repeat that every year. It's hard to build a community for an event when it's just all about you. Make your attendees the stars as much as possible. Make them the speakers, make them, the volunteers, make them the mentors, whatever. Just engage with as many people as possible. That's truly how you grow an event. Fast is, you get as many people involved as you can.
[00:36:57] Matt: I've learned a lot from books. We can't always be in the same place as people we respect and would like to learn from. What are some books that have been important to you, either in the past or things that you're reading and enjoying right now?
[00:37:08] PT: The old school ones were the E-Myth, certainly The 4-Hour Workweek, Automatic Millionaire by David Bach really resonated with me. I'm a natural spender. Learning to hack my savings by automating it in protecting money from me. I have to constantly hide money from myself. Even today, making a lot of money with my businesses. As soon as we earn it, we get it out. We get into a retirement account, we get into a real estate property so that it's just not cash sitting around. I had to learn to fix that about myself. Automatic Millionaire was the book to do it.
Then more recently, The ONE Thing, has been very helpful to help me focus my days on what is important. I think that's Gary Keller who wrote.
[00:37:52] Matt: Yes, it's Gary Keller. That's been a good one.
[00:37:55] PT: Then most recently I've been getting into, now that I'm a 44-year-old dude, staying healthy. I love the David Goggins book. I think it's, Can't Hurt Me. Then the Rich Roll book. I'm reading all these endurance, athlete motivational books. Those two have been useful.
[00:38:13] Matt: Awesome. I appreciate you sharing that. Anything else that you'd like to share with this podcast audience?
[00:38:20] PT: I don't know, man. I would just say maybe don't compare your middle with my end or your beginning with my middle. Where I'm out here, it's a process. If you set things in motion, believe me with your money and with your businesses, if you set things in motion now, really positive things can happen way down the line. For me, I had to as much as possible put that on lockstep and systematize that. If you can, it's almost a proven path to success. I would just encourage you to capture the energy you have now for fixing whatever issues you have going on or whatever and get it going now because positive things are in your future.
[00:39:07] Matt: It doesn't matter how fast you're moving as long as you're pointing in the right direction and actually moving.
[00:39:13] Phil: Yes.
[00:39:14] Matt: Well, last thing, PT, anyway that you would like people to follow up with you?
[00:39:18] PT: Yes. You can reach me at pt@ptmoney.com, and then of course the websites are ptmoney.com and then finconexpo.com. That's where everything's located.
[00:39:27] Matt: All right. I really appreciate you being here today. It's been wonderful to catch up with you again, and we will link out to all that content in the show notes. Thanks again, PT. I hope you have a great afternoon.
[00:39:37] PT: This has been great. Thanks for having me on.
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[00:39:43] Matt: PT always brings the goal and today is no exception. He shows the power of starting a couple of side hustles, teaching others as you learn, and serving an industry through an event that meets people's needs. FinCon rose, at least in part, because financial bloggers felt personally isolated as they honed their craft. PT created a space where they could get together in person and become more successful through the content available at FinCon. Today's show has five key takeaways.
First, one of the things I'm trying to implement from the conversation with PT arises almost as a throwaway remark when we're discussing PT's businesses as exist today. It's his time-blocking strategy of dedicating different days to different projects. Second, I love PT's comments about the importance of reflecting on where you are and enjoying what you have right now, rather than only thinking about what you want in the future or what you lack today. Third, post-2020, physical connection is more important than ever. Fourth, let your customers craft the event, have a vision but pull the people you're trying to serve for what they want in an event. Fifth, avoid making the thing you create, whether a conference or a piece of content about you, the creator, instead make it about your ideal customer. For example, even though you hear a lot of my voice, this podcast is about you, MBAs, Entrepreneurs, and other high-income professionals who work really hard and sacrifice a lot in your jobs and businesses. Every one of you has massive productive capacity for earning income and building wealth. Work Pants Finance shows up each week to teach you how to be a debt-free millionaire in your 30s, 40s, or 50s, and provide encouragement and inspiration along the way.
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[00:41:37] Matt: Thanks for joining PT and me today. If you love the show, please sign up for subscriber-only content and occasional emails at workpantsfinance.com/resources. Recent messages there included an invitation to participate in a call-in show this Friday, June 4th, and the first-ever Work Pants Finance meetup scheduled for July 1st in Raleigh. Be sure to tune in for flashback Friday as WPF returns and just two days to feature the one and only Jay Money who brings loads of energy and zest for life everywhere he goes. Until next time, this is Matt Miner, encouraging you to make a financial plan that works as hard as you do.
[00:42:20] Female Speaker: Matt Miner is a filmed, fiduciary financial advisor and founder and CEO of Minor Wealth Management a North Carolina registered investment advisor, where Matt provides personalized unconflicted advice to clients for a fee. He's also my dad, so please be nice when you talk to him. Matt is a certified financial planner professional and holds a Series 65 securities license. He earned his bachelor's degree in finance from Arizona State University and his MBA from Duke university's Fuqua School of Business.
Work Pants Finance is Matt's financial media business where he talks about work, entrepreneurship, kids and money, taxes, investing, and other personal finance topics. Workpantsfinance.com exists to share wisdom and provide general financial information. It is not financial tax or legal advice. You are an individual and probably need personal advice for your specific situation. You should consider building relationships with helpful, caring, and competent professionals who understand your unique contacts and can provide advice that is tailored to your needs.
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