Passion, Compassion, and the Importance of Grit – Shane Dikolli of the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business
March 19, 2021
By Matt Miner, MBA, CFP®
Halcyon Days of Fall 2019
December 18, 2019 was a beautiful day in the Southeast. Though Coronavirus was already raging on the other side of the world, in Raleigh life was smooth sailing! Stock markets hit new highs with very low volatility, unemployment rates plumbed new depths for all demographic groups, and I was gearing up to launch my first podcast.
I pointed my pickup north to Charlottesville, VA to interview Shane Dikolli, a good friend and important teacher in my life. It was the first podcast interview I ever conducted and Shane was an easy choice. We enjoyed reconnecting about life in general and parted ways with holiday well-wishes and no idea the level of disruption that was just over the horizon.
Though our interview took place in a different context, Shane’s thoughts are even more relevant now.
Passion, Compassion, and Grit
Passion in our work carries us through the hard times that come in any career.
Compassion for others and trying to see the world through the eyes of the people around us is as urgent as it’s ever been.
Grit is needed as we’re all experiencing adversity of various kinds.
In our discussion, Shane imparts his passion for accounting and compassion for students. He discusses the importance of grit in any endeavor, sharing an early setback in his MBA teaching career when he experienced poor student evaluations – and what he learned. He’s recovered. And he lays out the keys of wealth building – make a good income, live on less than you make, and invest the difference wisely.
Solid Gold: Shane’s Life and Money Advice
Ask good questions – Be Curious
Grit matters more than talent
Your crowd determines your course
Less can be more
Books
Shane’s enjoys business books that utilize academic research to make their arguments. He recommends:
Angela Duckworth’s Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance
Happy Money: The Science of Happier Spending, by Elizabeth Dunn and Michael Norton
Deep Work, by Cal Newport – The importance of creating space to experience flow
The Algebra of Happiness, by Scott Galloway
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Matt Miner: Whether you're a published accounting scholar or a plumber, and whether you love Australian meat pies or cheeseburgers, a life well-lived comes down to passion for your work, compassion for those around you, and grit in the face of adversity. Winning with money is simple, too. Live on less than you make. Invest the difference wisely. Avoid wipeout risk, then lather, rinse and repeat.
Its March 10th, 2020, and I remain really grateful Shane and I recorded in person in December 2019. That was the last time I saw him face to face, even though we have subsequently co-authored a case, and done some other work together at Darden. Shane, I hope we can clink pint glasses in real life before too long.
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Hey, and welcome to the Work Pants Finance podcast. I'm Matt Miner, your money guide. Work Pants Finance is the show for MBAs, entrepreneurs and other professionals who want their financial plan to work as hard as they do.
Today’s show is Passion, Compassion, and the Importance of Grit: Interview with Shane Dikolli of the University of Virginia’s Darden School of Business. You can read more at workpantsfinance.com/10.
In today's episode, I interview the man who introduced me to Australian rules football and taught me at the tender age of 28 by means of the game of Buffalo, how to hold a beverage properly.
Now, here's your money guide quick tip. Today's episode is general in terms of the topics we cover, so this is a good place to spotlight the basics.
In order to live on less than you make, you have to earn something. Step one is go get an income and then grow it. In order to live on less than you make, you have choices to make that set your lifestyle below your means. This means you need some version of a budget to create a growing pile of savings. Then in order to invest the difference wisely, you need to learn something about investing, develop an investment plan and stick to it over a long period of time, usually many decades.
In order to avoid wipeout risk, you need appropriate insurance. Now, whether you acquire it yourself or through your employer, most people need long-term disability income insurance, property and casualty insurance, health insurance, life insurance, and a great big emergency fund. Now, here's my interview with Shane Dikolli, associate professor of accounting at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business.
Shane is such a phenomenally gifted teacher that when I was in his managerial accounting course back in 2008, I once hired a babysitter and brought my wife charity to sit through one of his lectures. As you listen to Shane discuss his passion for accounting and compassion for people, you'll get a taste of why his work as my managerial accounting professor at Fuqua had such an outsized impact on my business school journey.
Well, Shane, it is so good to be here with you today in Charlottesville, Virginia. This is actually my first trip to the area. I wonder if so that my listeners know who you are, you could give us just a quick version of your story and how you came to be here.
[00:02:36] Shane Dikolli: Sure. My pleasure to be here, too. Thanks, Matt, for the opportunity.
[00:02:40] Matt: Absolutely.
[00:02:41] Shane: I was raised in Perth, Australia, which is as bad as far away as you can be from Charlottesville, Virginia. I went into public accounting when I was 17 or 18, then got a job at the university that I did my Bachelor of Business degree in. I worked there in budgets and administration. One day when I went to the cafeteria for lunch, an instructor that I used to have the management accounting said, "We're desperate for instructors. Would you please teach some accounting for us part time?" I did and loved it. I knew I would love it because I always thought one day that I would like to be a teacher.
[00:03:19] Matt: I think we saw in your video for Virginia that you used to use your brother's beds as desks to teach when you were very young, you had a sense of calling from an early age.
[00:03:29] Shane: I think so. I didn't realize it at the time, but I felt very comfortable and natural in the classroom environment there. I had an opportunity to teach in Canada. There was an exchange program between Curtin and Wilfrid Laurier University, which is just outside of Toronto. I went there not because I wanted to travel but because I had cousins that I got separated from when I was really young.
[00:03:55] Matt: Their parents knew where they were, right?
[00:03:57] Shane: Their parents took them across the world from us, and we were the best buddies that were first cousins. I always wanted to catch up with them again. I did the teaching exchange because I wanted to hang out with them. I got reunited with them back in the '90s, early '90s. It was first time I saw snow in Toronto. It was wonderful. I met my wife then, and that changed everything.
She was interviewing students that I was teaching. She worked for KPMG at the time. We followed each other around the world, and finally ended up back in Toronto with her job and I did a PhD at Waterloo, which was the best accounting program at the time within an hour of Toronto. From there, my PhD supervisor said, "You really need to send your work to the US for it to get promoted." He said, "Just pick a few schools." I was a little afraid of the US at that point. He said, "Pick a few schools that you would be comfortable living in." Austin, Texas was one of those. They gave me an interview, got a job, worked there for six years, worked at Fuqua for 12 years, and have been here at Darden since 2018.
[00:05:11] Matt: I really appreciate that intro. Just a couple of things that really stand out to me from that, one thing, Shane, from times in your house, you and Lynn have a plate display that says, "Bloom where you're planted." I know that that came from either your colleagues or your students at Austin. I know that you and I developed a close relationship from our time at Fuqua and even in the years subsequent to that. One of the things that I'll never forget about you was when we walked into our first day of managerial accounting class. It was a second term of my first year, and you had already memorized all of the students names.
It's traditional for the students of Fuqua to have name placards up. You came in, and you had the class's attention. You introduced yourself briefly, maybe like you've done here, and then you said, "Okay, you'll never need to have those out the rest of the time." Everybody put them away, and you called people by name. What has impressed me about you, and even in this transition to Darden is that you have really led with people first. I enjoyed hearing that interview that you did for your school here, where you said, "Passion and compassion underlie everything you do in the classroom."
My listeners are often building careers of various types. I feel like passion and compassion can underlie a lot of different things, not just in the classroom. I wonder if you could talk about how your research connects to what people may be doing in their career, and also how that's motivated by your people first philosophy.
[00:06:40] Shane: The passion and compassion thing came to me only just a few years ago, whereas I've practiced it for many years. It's just that-
[00:06:47] Matt: I agree with that.
[00:06:47] Shane: -it occurred to me that these are the two things that really drive everything I do. The passion side of it came about because when students come into accounting, they often think, "This is going to be too dry. I'm not going to learn anything. I'm just going to have to endure it." I believe that the content is actually really interesting. The power of summary numbers and how they can be a force for good, I get very excited about. I let the students know how excited I get about it.
[00:07:17] Matt: That's right.
[00:07:19] Shane: I think, hopefully, that inspires the students to want to learn the content being engaged, that's the passion side of it. The compassion side is that I really believe that teaching is about understanding the student perspective and making sure that they are actively engaged in the process. If I see it through the student's eyes, and I see a lecturer who is just lecturing and not giving the students an opportunity to exhibit their understanding, then it's not going to be a very useful experience for that student. I believe in seeing it from the student's eyes. That compassion would also embrace the idea that I know who the student is.
This whole idea of remembering student's names before I first meet them is something I've done for many years. I really believe that's an important signal to the students that I do care about their experience because the first thing I demonstrate to them is that I know their name. An interesting story about how that skill was acquired, or how I acquired that skill, my mother, when I was nine years old could see that all I really cared about was academics. I just wanted to be good at school. I just believed that I could do better on tests if I could write my own things, which was-- I was nine years old, I didn't know any better at the time and probably at that age.
[00:08:47] Matt: It's a good way to learn at that age.
[00:08:48] Shane: Yes. [laughs] She found this memory course online, not online. There was no online in those days, but-
[00:08:56] Matt: She was a real pioneer.
[00:08:57] Shane: Yes. She found you could right away, and they would send you these books on how to improve your memory. I got those books. I went through them all. I couldn't tell you what I actually learned from those books at the time, other than I know that it was very heavily associated with association. You associate people's faces with something that you can recognize.
[00:09:21] Matt: I hate to think what you associated mine with to remember it. I'm a face made for podcasting.
[00:09:25] Shane: I just don't know anymore, though, Matt, because it's been a while. I know you as a friend now. I couldn't tell you, but there's all sorts of METS that I see now that I think, "Oh, yes." I visualize you shaking hands with that person. In fact, I think in the Executive MBA program this year, I had seven METS in the class, which was incredible.
[00:09:49] Matt: That is incredible. All born between 1977 and 1984, that's the requirement.
[00:09:54] Shane: Oh, is that right?
[00:09:54] Matt: Yes.
[00:09:55] Shane: Anyway, I went through this course. I learned that skillset to be able to memorize things. The only thing that I actually apply it to is learning students' name. I usually teach about 200 new students each year, at least. I learned 200 new names and 200 new relationships. I'm in the process actually of learning all the Executive MBA student names on a plane to Australia in the coming week. I usually can get it done within four or five hours.
[00:10:24] Matt: Well, you'll have time on the plane to Australia. I just want to go back and interact with something that you said in this idea of compassion and seeing it from the students' eyes, I think it's a great way to teach. I just would comment that I think that's also a great way to see it from the boss's eyes, see it from the customer's eyes, see it from your staff's eyes, and you'll just be more effective and getting more of what you want done.
[00:10:50] Shane: Yes, I completely agree. That's really important in academics as well because doing research, the biggest challenge in doing research is getting papers published. You really have to see it from the reviewers' eyes. The reviewers will write reports. In almost every case, the reviewer has some valid point that as an author, it's hard to see because it's your baby, and you just can't let go of what you've written, but the reviewer tends to have, I think, very, very useful points to make. If you see it through their eyes, I think it makes it easy to address those points.
[00:11:25] Matt: I wanted to also ask you a big theme in my life, and in yours as well, is this notion of personal integrity. [unintelligible 00:11:31] was one of the things that drew me to Fuqua, as I was considering business schools, and even doing research on how integrity is related to performance. I'm just curious how you tested that, and what you learned, and how someone should think about this.
[00:11:46] Shane: This came out of a PhD student Summer Study. He wanted to do textual analysis. He also was interested in the idea of integrity as well. We took the two together and we started to brainstorm ideas of how he could test integrity by looking at people's words and whether or not they honor their words, a form of integrity. The logical starting point for that would be what the CEO says in his or her words.
The CEO shareholder's letter was a fairly standard letter across all firms that would be a really good data source. We literally counted the number of causation based words. The reason why causation based words are very important is that they are explanations. Words like because and thus and therefore, and those sorts of causation type words will lead to an explanation. What we found was that we counted the proportion of causation-related words in the shareholder letter, regressed that on all of the variables that would capture the demand for information that the investors in the firm would have.
Whatever was left over in the residual was either over explanations or under explanations. The over explanations were the ones that we conjected with low integrity because people just didn't trust them, didn't believe them.
[00:13:08] Matt: Does it have anything to do with just running your mouth when you're afraid or worried about it?
[00:13:13] Shane: It could be. We conjected that it was more about people who weren't trusted because this isn't in a shareholder's letter, you can't really run your mouth in a shareholder's letter. The people that had to explain themselves more, we labeled as over-explainers and those that had low integrity, and the ones that underexplained. A really good example of that is Jim Sinegal from Costco.
He was in our sample 12 times over 12 different years, and he was always in the top 10 percentile in terms of high integrity. He wouldn't explain very much at all. In 2000, he said, "We're going on the internet next year." Whereas, other CEOs would say, "We're going on the internet because we can grow, we can expand our product lines." They would have these long-winded explanations. Whereas, Sinegal would just say, "We're going on to the internet," and people would trust that.
It turns out that this measure of integrity that we got is associated with higher audit fees. That means the auditor knows this, and the auditor-
[00:14:17] Matt: Adjust the bill.
[00:14:18] Shane: -adjust the bill accordingly because they have to do more work for low integrity types. For the high integrity types, they do less work. We also found that it's associated with backdating of stock options. The low integrity types would pick the luckiest day or the day that had the lowest stock price in the previous month so that they could get the options at a low price.
The last thing was that it's associated with future performance. High integrity associated with higher future performance, and we think that's related to the tone at the top that's set by the CEO because we know that corporate culture is associated with future performance as well. A good corporate culture is associated with high future performance.
[00:15:01] Matt: I appreciate you going into that. I just was struck. King Solomon 3,000 years ago in Proverbs said, "Where words are many, transgression is not lacking." His statement now has empirical underpinnings, not that we needed it.
[00:15:13] Shane: That's great.
[00:15:14] Matt: Well, look, this is a show about planning. One of the things I wanted to ask is if you would share a little bit about what you love today in your life and work and to the extent you want to talk about it, your money. That's my background and approach to this, but it's obviously your words and your life. I'm interested to hear how you reflect on that.
[00:15:34] Shane: Life is a professor is good. There's a lot of flexibility. Both my wife and I are professors. We were able to fit our work into time packets that suit us and our family. Other than scheduled classes, we can work late at night if we want to. We can work on the weekends if we want to or not. That's the great thing about life as a professor. The thing I also really like is the ability to be able to form new relationships.
200 at least new relationships every year, I really enjoy that and just learning about people and their diverse backgrounds and there are people that come to business schools that I've been fortunate enough to be at, are just fascinating. They've got backgrounds that are really fantastic. I learn a lot from them. They're inspiring. I really enjoyed that about life today.
In terms of the lifestyle, we've lived in three awesome towns, college town, Austin, Durham, and now Charlottesville. Each of them have amazing restaurants. Each of them have great outdoors lifestyle. There's always something interesting and new to discover. I really like that about the towns that we've lived in. Money-wise, we've been fortunate enough, our kids went to in-state colleges. It was-
[00:16:54] Matt: It's a great choice.
[00:16:55] Shane: Yes, it was good for us money wise. Are both risk-averse accountants. We tend to save rather than spend. We were raised in really modest households as well. There was never any lavish spending. We really don't spend lavishly now, even though we probably could afford to. We've just been really fortunate to be in the right place at the right time. We have devoted enough money, I think, to retirement, and the schools that we've worked at have encouraged that. We feel in a pretty secure place financially, very fortunate.
[00:17:34] Matt: What I take from that is, it's the same for everybody. Enjoy what you do, live on less than what you make, save some for the future, invest wisely to the extent you can.
[00:17:42] Shane: Exactly. That's great advice. You should use that as a soundbite, Matt. That's awesome.
[00:17:48] Matt: Don't run the train off the tracks if you can help it.
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[00:17:54] Matt: Today’s show is brought to you by the Jeremiah Inn, in Tucson Arizona. Safely welcoming guests since 1995. If the warm, dry weather hasn’t reached your neck of the woods, or if you always wanted to check out Southern Arizona, there’s no better time than spring 2021. Go to jeremiahinn.com to get in touch.
One thing I guess I would ask, is there anything that you would change if you could?
[00:18:27] Shane: Yes. I love visiting Australia, my family there, and if I could somehow get there faster [laughs] and get there more often, but of course,-
[00:18:37] Matt: Teleport.
[00:18:37] Shane: -that's not going to happen. Yes, teleporting is really it. I'd love to see my kids more as well. They're in North Carolina, and I'm in Virginia, but I feel pretty lucky to be able to see them as much as I do. My son's doing a business degree at North Carolina, I have more contact with him than probably most parents do with their kids.
[00:18:57] Matt: Do you seem increasingly wiser to him as time has gone along?
[00:19:01] Shane: I think so. He's become increasingly wiser as well. I think he really appreciates the importance of accounting now, which is great.
[00:19:10] Matt: It was only a matter of time.
[00:19:12] Shane: My daughter, too. She is the same. I think she sees both my wife and I, why we had rules that we did to them growing up.
[00:19:23] Matt: One of the things I like to ask people about, from my perspective, you're doing what you love, you're good at it. You shared with us a little bit about your life. What would surprise someone who was like, "Yes, that seems like a great idea to do what Shane is doing," that they maybe wouldn't anticipate that is either a challenge or a hardship, or just something along those lines that's not visible from the outside looking in.
[00:19:46] Shane: The quantity of rejection that's in academia is really quite amazing. It's not just in reviews or review reports that we get once we submit a paper to a journal and I would say 80% of the time, the reviews are fairly negative and require some change to a manuscript. That's tough to take, you have to be really resilient. I would also say that teaching evaluations can be really harsh as well.
[00:20:15] Matt: You made a Fuqua vision video about it.
[00:20:17] Shane: Yes. [chuckles] Especially in the early years when you're inexperienced and students sometimes can gravitate towards that inexperience and pick out the flaws. Even now, I am fortunate to be able to get reasonably good evaluations, but it's always the case that I tend to focus on just that one bad evaluation and it really gets to me.
[00:20:38] Matt: I think it's interesting. I just would share to anyone listening, Shane is an amazing instructor. Routinely wins teaching awards and it certainly is one of the things that drew me to him initially before I got to know him, before I got to know you more personally. I think that there's a great lesson there for all of us which is just that one, there's always stuff that you don't know from the outside looking in. Two, haters are going to hate and you can't let the detractors define you. I appreciate hearing how you've had to work through that.
I wanted to ask you if you had to reflect on a particular low point and how you got through it, I would be interested in your thoughts on that.
[00:21:13] Shane: When I was at Texas and there was a couple of things that were foreign to me. I taught at Curtin University for a number of years before going to a PhD and then getting a job at Texas. I'd always done reasonably well in the classroom by getting to know the students. The first time I taught at Texas, I tried to do that as well. I learned all the student names and I try to make it as engaging as possible, the class. For some reason, the students just didn't connect in that first term that I taught there.
I think was largely because I treated them more like undergraduates rather than graduate students. We did problems on the board, for example. Even though I asked them questions about what's the next step, it just wasn't their cup of tea. I got crushed in those teaching evaluations. It was really a low point of my whole life. I just couldn't understand how badly I did. I was embarrassed, I didn't know what to say to the Dean and I didn't know how I could go into a classroom again.
Fortunately, I had some fantastic colleagues at Texas. One, in particular, Mary Lea McAnally, grabbed me by the scruff of the neck, says, "You've got to get up and you've got to go into that classroom and you've got to change the way that you teach. You're going to do case-based teaching and have the students actively engaged in it." She gave me the groundwork, the foundation for building a much better course. That was one and I recovered from that. It was good that I had that experience. It really was a wake-up call.
[00:22:43] Matt: Anyway, I don't know if you were going to say more but it makes me think of two things. One, I'm glad you recovered because you are a great teacher and I benefited from that. Then the other thing that I just reflect back on some of my earlier career working with dealers when I was with the John Deere company and sometimes you have to go in and give bad news. What you have to do after that is you got to go right back in.
If you can't go back in the next day, go in three days later because you give the bad news let them stew on it a little bit and then you just got to go right back in there and keep doing business.
[00:23:13] Shane: Exactly.
[00:23:14] Matt: It's the same with teaching.
[00:23:16] Shane: It's funny you mentioned John Deere because when you're at John Deere, and I came to visit you one time-
[00:23:21] Matt: That was so fun.
[00:23:22] Shane: It was so fun. I still use that story to this day and I've still got the video and I sometimes show the video as well.
[00:23:28] Matt: I look much younger.
[00:23:29] Shane: Right. It was very grainy video too, it was hard to tell. What I love about that story is that you were going out onto the production floor and you're managing a module I think you called it. Whenever there was some planters that came through your module that had some deficiencies from earlier in the process, you would stop the production process and make sure that you got it fixed rather than let it keep going because it would be much more expensive to fix it if you just-
[00:23:59] Matt: That's right. It just gets more expensive the farther it goes.
[00:24:01] Shane: You would let this bottleneck develop at your module. This one day where I came to observe, I was really panicked for you. I was thinking, "Matt you've got to do something. You've got a bottleneck. You've got a bottleneck." You were so calm, so poised and you said, "No. I've got this under control. We've got to get it fixed here or else it's going to get too expensive further down the line." It was brilliant the way that you managed that team who were mostly union employees that have been there 30 or 40 years. You just calmly out of your MBA program just told them what they needed to do and they got it done. I was really impressed by that.
[00:24:36] Matt: I think you remember the calmness and the brilliance perhaps more clearly with passing years. It's been 10 years now, but thank you for that Shane. That's kind of you to say. I wanted to ask if you could give my audience one piece of advice you wish you'd heard earlier in life, what would it be? The theme of this show or at least that I hope it's going to be going forward is learning from others so that you can stand on the shoulders of giants as it were. It's fun to be here talking to you, but what do you wish you'd learned earlier?
[00:25:04] Shane: I have four things. They're short. The first one is ask good questions. That's so important for an instructor. I think it's really important for anyone in their daily lives to ask good questions because it can lead to good conversations and great things can come of that. Grit matters more than talent. I don't think I'm a particularly talented instructor but I've really stuck to it, I've learned people's names, over and over again do the same thing each term, and handling the rejections that come about. Grit I think is more important than talent.
I really believe also that your crowd determines your course. The people you choose to associate with even at a young age can determine what path that you go down. I think there are choices that people have the opportunity to make that sometimes they avoid and it can be a conscious choice to mix with the right crowd. The last thing is less can be more. That took me a long time to figure out.
I thought for the longest time it was better just to overwhelm students, for example, or overwhelm the research environment, be it a reviewer, or a report, or an editor with information and just write really long papers. I've found as I've gotten older that less can be more compelling than having a really long-winded way of explaining things.
[00:26:28] Matt: I think do a show on each of those but on that last one, something that I learn and continue to learn and often is the case that when less is more you find yourself actually producing more results of better quality with lower effort, lower [crosstalk], certainly, and it's because of adopting that philosophy. That was pure gold, Shane. Thank you for sharing that with us. I wanted to ask, you're reading any good books right now or any particular books that you particularly admire?
[00:27:00] Shane: I'm a huge fan of business books that have scientific backing in some way. I recently read Angela Duckworth's Grit which I think is awesome. I learned a lot from it and it made me reflect on how it's helped me in my career, not knowing what grit is or how important it is, but now I understand it and it's terrific. Happy Money is another one, the science of spending.
[00:27:24] Matt: I haven't read that one.
[00:27:25] Shane: I think that's a terrific book too. It's all about a smarter way of spending to bring happiness. For example, the happiness from, say, a vacation is almost more from the anticipation of the vacation than the vacation itself. There's scientific research that supports this.
[00:27:42] Matt: That's right. I always tell clients it's important to get the vacation on the calendar because then you can just begin looking forward to it and imagining it. You can even anticipate the memories in advance.
[00:27:51] Shane: Exactly. There's science to support that viewpoint. Happy Money goes through all those in different chapters of different scientific studies, it's terrific. I've read Deep Work by Cal Newport, I think it's a fantastic book. I think you know a lot about that too. Currently reading The Algebra Of Happiness by Scott Galloway. Galloway is a professor at NYU. Do you know him?
[00:28:15] Matt: No.
[00:28:16] Shane: He is very opinionated, has opinionated viewpoints about tech and the role that tech has in society. He also has this very soft side of him about the importance of happiness and he has all these equations that explain what he believes how happiness can be achieved. I think it's a great easy read and he's very active on Twitter as well.
[00:28:40] Matt: Okay. Shane, this has been a great conversation. Is there anything we haven't touched on that you'd like to say?
[00:28:47] Shane: Well, I want to say that you were one of the best students that I ever taught.
[laughter]
You literally showed that and you got to the top of the honor role. I thank you for your great dedication to the class, great dedication as a friend over many years. It's just been a joy to have this opportunity. Thank you.
[00:29:08] Matt: Absolutely, Shane. I would thank you for that. Again, probably I remember too fondly with the passing of yours but I definitely enjoyed your class and have even more enjoyed your friendship over the years. Been great to be with you today, great to see your office here in Charlottesville. I'll definitely be cheering for the Blue Devils over the 'Hoos in the coming season. For sure. Thanks for spending some time.
[00:29:28] Shane: Okay.
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[00:29:30] Matt: Thanks again for tuning in to my conversation with Shane. Be sure to check out the show notes for highlights and resources from today. If you're enjoying this journey, through life and money, please leave a rating and review on iTunes. Then be sure to tune in on Thursday July 2nd for episode number four where I discuss habits and happiness through the COVID-19 pandemic.
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[00:29:52] Speaker 3: Matt Miner is a fee-only, fiduciary financial advisor and Founder & CEO of Miner Wealth Management, a North Carolina Registered Investment Advisor where Matt provides personalized, unconflicted, advice to clients for a fee. He’s also my dad, so please be nice when you talk to him! Matt is a Certified Financial Planner Professional and holds a Series 65 securities license. He earned his bachelor’s degree in Finance from Arizona State University, and his MBA from Duke University’s Fuqua School of Business.
Work Pants Finance is Matt's financial media business where he talks about work, entrepreneurship, kids and money, taxes, investing, and other personal finance topics. WorkPantsFinance.com exists to share wisdom and provide general financial information. It is not financial, tax, or legal advice. You are an individual and probably need personal advice for your specific situation. You should consider building relationships with helpful, caring, and competent professionals who understand your unique context and can provide advice that is tailored to your needs
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